[WARC] Interesting Numbers

Len Litvan Litvan at acegroup.cc
Tue Jun 17 12:23:21 GMT 2008 

Thank you Darlene for your very "on the mark" comments--in my opinion, 
of course.  Thanks also for the background info and your experiences.

Good to hear from you!

73,
Len  KC0RSX

Darlene wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> This was one of my topics I wanted to change as president....I totally 
> agree our program nights should not have business at them other than 
> announcements.  We started my term with an ad hoc committee to try to 
> change just that and came up with the idea of trying it and then 
> making the change permanent.  Despite the doubling up of work for the 
> officers, we offered Exec. Board Meetings which were published and 
> open to all.  We got a lot of business hashed out and yes, many 
> announcements, which shortened the business portion required.  Many of 
> you fine individuals helped come up with a plan to that we stayed 
> within our constitution and bylaws, but with any group situation there 
> were those reluctant to change.
>
> I/we saw a couple of disturbing trends...one was that we had a couple 
> elected officials not able to consistently take the time to come to 
> the meetings because of either other commitments or not totally on 
> board with the plan.  They came to a few meetings here and there and 
> could not definitively make up their minds.  Legitimately, there were 
> a few times when job commitments kept individuals from attending and 
> with scheduling those are excusable and unavoidable.  So, some 
> meetings had decisions that did not have enough representation to make 
> decisions, so those topics were brought up on the Thursday program 
> nights.
>
> The other one was those club members and non-club members who like to 
> be included in decisionmaking/bantering making mountains out of 
> molehills and not taking the time to come to the Exec. Board meetings 
> to be heard.  These are the most dangerous because of the 
> Hatfield/McCoy attitude that ensued on a couple of issues (we all know 
> the issues I am referring to).
>
> Or the ones that promise to help and then decide because their way is 
> not the adopted decision, that they pull out of helping the club and 
> then complain about the club.  This does the most harm because it turn 
> folks off from even helping!!  Or not wanting to have anything to do 
> with the main reason of our club which is ALL aspects of Amateur 
> Radio, not just their view and mindset.
>
> How about people who complain about initiative from other people?  It 
> may not have been the "traditional" way of what the club had, but 
> doesn't a club that wants to grow try out new things?  There seems to 
> be a lot of deep-seated anger in this club and you all need to get 
> over it and move on.
>
> Taking your bat and ball and going home is no way to fix the club.
>
> I suppose where the ball was dropped on this issue was when we did 
> have the system going and because of the whole idea of notification 
> and quorum.  Which is also a whole area in our bylaws that is hard and 
> fast.  But maybe someone else can talk more about that!!
>
> Possible solutions anyone?  Mine is to agree to disagree.  Move the 
> business portion to an Executive Board situation, take the time to 
> vote in officers in which you trust their logic and let's just get out 
> there and enjoy ALL the different aspects of amateur radio.  If 
> everyone does something or heads something in which your talents can 
> shine, please do.  If you can't, get out of the way and keep quiet!
>
> If you were a person looking for a club to join, would you join ours?  
> I would hope so as I consider each and every one of you good friends, 
> but sometimes that could also be a bit daunting from someone that 
> doesn't know any of us.  How DO we make people feel welcome and want 
> to join us?  How DO we get our current members to feel comfortable 
> enough to help?  How DO we get past members to reconsider our club and 
> take notice?
>
> I do have to comment that I think we do have interesting programming 
> past and present.  There is a great foundation!
>
> Now what?
>
> Darlene--KC0CTH
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2008, at 11:19 PM, Leslie Hittner wrote:
>
>> Darlene did in fact have regularly scheduled exec meetings. Her
>> goal was ultimately to stop having monthly membership
>> "meetings." As I recall, we never really got to that point
>> before she turned over control to her successor.
>>
>> I'm not sure I heard many people complain about not having a say
>> at the monthly business meetings. It's a sure bet it wasn't the
>> 60 or so hams who are non-members who were complaining! If you
>> look at the minutes for than last year or so, you will see that
>> very little "business" is conducted at the monthly membership
>> "meetings." Most of the time is used up making "announcements"
>> with very few motions.
>>
>>> From 7-8  has been very nice this year. Len has done a good job
>> of putting together programs. In fact our programs have been
>> pretty good for a couple of years. Unfortunately they have been
>> limited by the "meeting" paradigm. If we can get rid of the
>> meetings, we can do a lot more interesting things besides sit
>> and listen to someone talk.
>>
>> The time after the program (from 8-9) is a waste of time.
>>
>> Len, you bet I will support discontinuing monthly meetings. I
>> have been advocating that for three years now (I even proposed
>> constitutional and by-law amendments to accomplish that. They
>> didn't pass!)
>>
>> -Les
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lance Tagliapietra" <lancetag at Luminet.net>
>> To: <Litvan at acegroup.cc>; "Winona Amateur Radio Club general
>> discussion" <warc at lists.w0ne.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 09:46
>> Subject: Re: [WARC] Interesting Numbers
>>
>>
>>> Len,
>>>
>>> It is a great idea, and it has been tried before, with limited
>> success,
>>> becuase, even thought the membership complains about the
>> meetings, you
>>> get just as many complaints if "everyone doesn't get to
>> contribute their
>>> $0.02" to a decision at the meeting.
>>>
>>> When Darlene was WARC president, she held open meetings of the
>> executive
>>> board every month, with the goal of covering the material
>> prior to the
>>> meeting.  The problem is, the decisions made at those meetings
>> were then
>>> re-hashed at the regular meeting, ultimately saving no time
>> for anyone.
>>>
>>> I think what would make the biggest difference, is:
>>> a) publish the agenda in the hamgram.
>>> b) stick to the published agenda
>>> c) any calls for 'new business' will be for items to add to
>> next months
>>> agenda, but not covered in the current meeting.
>>>
>>> and one change was already suggested, and implemented, and
>> that is to
>>> make the program first, and those who are interested can stick
>> around
>>> for the business meeting.  That didn't seem to significantly
>> impact
>>> attendance.
>>>
>>> And, unlike Jim's comment, I don't enjoy a good debate, so I'd
>> rather
>>> see the issues dealt with elsewhere, but as I said, that has
>> been tried.
>>>
>>> Lastly, even when the club had 95 members, we still had about
>> the same
>>> number of 'active' folks, so I don't see the impact in
>> workload (but
>>> yes, there is an impact in the club treasury).
>>>
>>> --Lance
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 05:16:55PM -0500, Len Litvan wrote:
>>>> Les,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the Directors should "take care of business" for the
>> club and bring
>>>> only big issues to the general membership at regular monthly
>> meetings if
>>>> necessary.  I envision full business meetings being part of
>> the general
>>>> club meetings only in June and December (election months).
>>>>
>>>> The Directors can communicate their decisions and
>> conclusions via the
>>>> reflector, the Hamgram, and a handout at regular meetings.
>> Same with
>>>> monthly Treasurer's reports and Secretary's reports.
>>>>
>>>> That's what I plan to do if I am elected President next
>> year.  Will you
>>>> support me?
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Len
>>>>
>>>> Leslie Hittner wrote:
>>>>> ELIMINATE THE BUSINESS MEETINGS! Do the club's business a
>>>>> different way. Concentrate on activities. If people are
>>>>> concerned about the "long" meetings, why look
>>>>> for a place that allows even longer meetings? A time from
>> 7-9 is
>>>>> long enough - especially if you want young people to
>> attend.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "business meeting" answer has been staring us in the
>> face
>>>>> for years. Let's deal with it. People who "love" business
>>>>> meetings can come to the board meetings. Keep the rest of
>> the
>>>>> time to ham radio.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Les, K0BAD
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "James Jefferson Jarvis" <jj at aprsworld.com>
>>>>> To: "Winona Amateur Radio Club general discussion"
>>>>> <warc at lists.w0ne.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:11
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WARC] Interesting Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Dick Lindner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I respond to Len's comments and second his comment on
>>>>>>>
>>>>> meetings.  There
>>>>>
>>>>>>> also needs to be variety in the meetings - some
>> historical,
>>>>>>>
>>>>> some "show
>>>>>
>>>>>>> and tell" for newcomers, and some programs that perhaps
>> have
>>>>>>>
>>>>> nothing to
>>>>>
>>>>>>> do with ham radio - the weather center visit was
>> certainly a
>>>>>>>
>>>>> good step.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd love to do more show and tell at the meetings. I've
>>>>>>
>>>>> brought a few things
>>>>>
>>>>>> this year, but haven't been able to show them. With the
>> lights
>>>>>>
>>>>> going while
>>>>>
>>>>>> the business meeting is still going, it doesn't make it
>> very
>>>>>>
>>>>> easy to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The "old days" also had hamshack visits.  It would be
>>>>>>>
>>>>> unwieldy to have
>>>>>
>>>>>>> all of the meeting attendees show up at someone's house
>> at
>>>>>>>
>>>>> the same
>>>>>
>>>>>>> time.  But perhaps, if there were 3 or 4 people willing
>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>> open their
>>>>>
>>>>>>> shacks, and someone willing to coordinate the "round
>> robin"
>>>>>>>
>>>>> on the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> meeting night by clock time, then the groups could be
>> small
>>>>>>>
>>>>> enough and
>>>>>
>>>>>>> everyone could visit all 3 or 4 shacks.  What a kick that
>>>>>>>
>>>>> would be!
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would be happy to volunteer a "shack" visit to my work.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Electronics R&D,
>>>>>
>>>>>> machine shop, and tiny amateur radio installation. And a
>>>>>>
>>>>> meeting run and
>>>>>
>>>>>> facilities to host a meeting as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have hopes for new hams to attend Field Day.  Perhaps
>> if
>>>>>>>
>>>>> we had a list
>>>>>
>>>>>>> of names and telephone numbers, some members of the club
>>>>>>>
>>>>> could make a
>>>>>
>>>>>>> personal call to remind/invite the new hams to Field Day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HF and VHF contests used to be run by those interested
>> with
>>>>>>>
>>>>> a couple of
>>>>>
>>>>>>> other hams showing up at a designated "contest station".
>>>>>>>
>>>>> WB0HAD and
>>>>>
>>>>>>> WB0PRK and I think N0BUI and myself did this a few times
>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>> had a good
>>>>>
>>>>>>> time.  I'm not sure we ever sent in the contest results,
>> but
>>>>>>>
>>>>> the whole
>>>>>
>>>>>>> thing was a good time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good ideas, Dick!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Jim KB0THN
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> WARC mailing list
>>>>>> WARC at lists.w0ne.org
>>>>>> http://lists.w0ne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/warc
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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